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home : opinions : letters August 24, 2016


12/4/2012 1:01:00 PM
Letter: Is there any wonder why the GOP lost the presidency?

Editor:

My, my, what a concept, V.I. Letter 11/28/2012, Mr. Bond shows true form of liberal/progressive spin on history and misinterpretation of events.

Start with a word Mr. Bond has thrown around on other occasions and then again here. He appears to like to equate “Fascism” and “Free Market Capitalism” as one in the same thing, which could not be further from the truth. Fascism means “Totalitarian Dictatorship” generally headed by a narcissistic egomaniac that manages to take over the business community and make it all government controlled.

When this is beginning in a free market the hubristic egomaniac may take over extremely large companies or corporations, steal the monetary wealth of the entity from those that invested in stocks and bonds that the founders had established and then arbitrarily fire the executives and the down-line marketers (most often by whether or not they agree with and/or have contributed to his political dynamo, and his assessment of himself). Oh, wait a minute. That and more was all done in the United States’ takeover of General Motors, etc. wasn’t it?

It is stupid to place blind trust and faith in anyone or anything, including Almighty God. My faith in God and Jesus is based on knowledge and experience, not on some religious or denominational doctrine that begs to make me a slave of any kind.

I was a slave to stupidity and self, raised essentially an atheist, even though in studying secular science I realized evolution cannot work, and still was unable to accept God. When I witnessed four miracles that really had nothing to do with me, I started studying: God and the Lordship of Jesus has been proven time after time.

Back to Fascism, the ultimate in sheepish following is when one adheres to a doctrine motivated by fear and that is what happens when the government controls politics, laws, business and religion, which is the direction this nation is heading.

As far as an honest election is concerned, the past three -- 2008, 2010 and 2012 -- have been arguably the most corrupt in history and with no accountability because of the corruption in the current administration’s Justice Department.

About this last election, someone said, “Not only the graveyard headstones but the illegal aliens and the department store mannequins voted Democrat. Is this a great country or what?” Besides, we appear to be doing everything possible to promote “Sharia/Shariah Law” worldwide.

With all that, is there any wonder why the GOP lost the national election?

Dale Gohr

Clarkdale


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• Letter: Why Romney lost


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Reader Comments

Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012
Article comment by: @ Doc Smith

Whoopsie! Good thing I'm not a cardiologist.

Re: "...fighting corporatism with class warfare might work?"
Not unless it's already gone totalitarian, and even then, provoking a touchy, self-righteous super power seems to be a safer bet.

Re: pumping power>interventionism>"That seems plausible to me."
I can't think of a single instance in which anything pushed a fascist state into less interventionism before it went totalitarian, became expansionist, and lost a war. A full grey scale, for sure. But apparently a one-way slope .

However, there were areas in which medieval European city-states slipped from various forms of monarchy to republics to oligarchies and back again. Asia Minor was also more fluid than it became. Somewhere in there, feudal prototypes may have gone into remission due to pestilence, famine, flood, or pure good sense.

The background on Italian Fascism and Nazi Germany was interesting, but I wish an historian would tackle a broader evolution from a socio-political point of view. The way right-wing economists tell it, fascism and socialism both sprang fully formed from the head of Jupiter. I don't think that's the case. From everything else I've read, fascist and socialist ideologies seem to have different roots and address different needs.

Shouldn't advocates of individual rights try to understand why different cultures tend to embrace one or the other? World-wide, it can't simply be control-freak propaganda.


Posted: Monday, December 10, 2012
Article comment by: nutso fasst

Mr. Bond, a more legitimate example of contradiction would be your vociferous condemnation of an agenda that is clearly subscribed to by an administration of which you approve.


Posted: Sunday, December 9, 2012
Article comment by: M J

When ever I see a post from j bond .... I know I need to bring a pair of hip boots ... 'cause there is bond to be a lot of bovine fecal matter about.

Posted: Sunday, December 9, 2012
Article comment by: Verde Voter

The GOP lost the election because they are out of touch. They lost the election because of their agenda. They lost the election because they are racist, hateful, delusional, deranged people. The Facts are the Facts.

Posted: Sunday, December 9, 2012
Article comment by: Slater Slater

Can't wait till they start bickering about 2016.
Just can't get enough can we.
I doubt we'll see the GOP in the white house
for decades.Playing hardball with the little folks.


Posted: Sunday, December 9, 2012
Article comment by: Peter, Yavapai County

The GOP lost because they delivered an uninspiring, detached candidate who could not connect with the average American. Even many of those who voted for him were holding their nose as they voted.

Posted: Saturday, December 8, 2012
Article comment by: John A. Bond

@ Try again:

"Fighting corporatism by promoting class warfare and pumping more power into a central authority is like treating congestive heart failure with digitalis."

Comment:

If you think the wealthy elite have not been engaing in class warfare to promote corporate [fascist] rule, you are delusional.

Clearly, the goal of the wealthy elite is to privatize all government, that "central authority" you speak of into corporate [fascist] rule.

It is not a centralized government that is a problem. It is a centralized government that has been privatized into the hands of the wealthy elite that manifests as corporatism [fascism] that is the threat to American constitutional democracy.

Clearly, you have been drinking the neoconservative kool aid and believe the argument put forth by, of and for the wealthy elite that any effort to address the egregious wealth disparity in America represents the middle class, working poor, elderly, women, minorities and the disabled engaging in "class warfare" against the wealthy elite.

What utter nonsense. The wealthy elite have been waging war on the American people since the inception of the United States of America.

It has never stopped. It has been an on-going attack upon common, ordinary Americans for over 200 years.

After the Great Depression, the destructive power of the wealthy elite was reigned in and this allowed for the development of a strong middle class [something that had not previously existed in America] under the auspices of unions and unionism.

The goal of restoration of the wealthy elite to a state of absolute power never ended. It was held in abatement by laws enacted during the New Deal of FDR that prevented the type of massive speculative fraud that manifested in 2007 during the presidency of Bush II, the war criminal.

What do you think the Southern Strategy was all about in 1968? It was about the GOP, the political expression of the GOP achieving political power to implement the fascist goals of the wealthy elite.

In 1980, with the election of neoconservative candidate Ronald Reagan, the wealthy elite achieved their goal.

They put their puppet president into power and were then in a position to implement their clearly fascist goal under the auspices of the Reagan Revolution and "reaganomics" [that neoliberal economic policy clearly fascist in orientation and goals].

If you think that corporatism will not be a highly centralized form of government, you are sadly mistaken.

The fundamental difference will be that under a privatized and highly centralized corporate government, democracy will cease to exist.

The Military Industrial Complex will crush any efforts to reinstate our constitutional democracy and ultimiately the Military will assign one of its own to be the dictator in charge of the country.

So, please, do not talk to me of "class warfare" as if any effort to reign in the GREED [Get Rich Eviscerating Everything Democratic] of the wealthy elite is not fully justified and frankly absolutely essential to the preservation of democracy.
--------------------------------------

You then say,

"It will bring on the dictatorship that will trigger the military coup you so rightly fear"

Comment:

Your position is clearly so arrogant as to be repugnant. Clearly, the intent of your words are to convey the idea that it is better to capitulate to the wealthy elite rather than to struggle to preserve American constitutional democracy.

Resistance to the efforts by the wealthy elite to transform American constitutional democracy into a corporate [fascist] state, will not "cause the dictatorship to occur", it will hopefully prevent it from every happening.

If you believe in democracy you should be urging the wealthy elite to cease its class warfare on the American people and encourage them to embrace egalitarian democracy that respects the collective and individual constitutional rights of the American people.

However, YOU know that is futile because the wealthy elite do not believe in democracy their God is GREED and their only interest is maximizing their profit motive.

For them, democracy is messy. It interferes [under the capitalist economic system that represents the fascist expression of the ability of the wealthy elite to dominate and control the economy] with the profit motive.

Democracy is messy. It does not lend itself well to capitulation to the capitalist economic model and in fact is completely antithetical to that model.

The next time YOU pick a fight with me, Bring a sword to the sword fight instead of a tooth pick.



Posted: Saturday, December 8, 2012
Article comment by: @ ibs ...

Maybe I misunderstand your point, ibs, but, a quick check with my doc confirms that treating congestive heart failure with digitalis is not always contraindicated, although newer drugs exist.

So, are you saying that fighting corporatism with class warfare might work?

If not, is totalitarianism the only possibility?"

Perhaps, "... pumping more power into a central authority" might have a much different outcome:

"Interventionism, or the mixed economy. Interventionism seeks to guide the market process, not eliminate it, as fascism (did). Minimum-wage and antitrust laws, though they regulate the free market, are a far cry from multiyear plans from the Ministry of Economics."http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Fascism.html)

That seems plausible to me.

Just a shade of gray. One of 50, I hear.


Posted: Saturday, December 8, 2012
Article comment by: 'Grokked,' indeed, we all...

... are now strangers in a strange land.

Posted: Friday, December 7, 2012
Article comment by: Try again, Mr. Bond

Neither you nor Mr. Gohr have quite grokked the difference between totalitarianism and corporatism (which I think we all agree is fascism by any other name--and which I maintain is simply the current form of feudalism).

This distinction is important because the cure is different. Fighting corporatism by promoting class warfare and pumping more power into a central authority is like treating congestive heart failure with digitalis. It will bring on the dictatorship that will trigger the military coup you so rightly fear.

Since Mr. Fasst seems to have aced the critical difference, I suggest you go back and read his second paragraph. Once you get the diagnosis right, the cure is both self-evident and copiously documented.

ibs



Posted: Friday, December 7, 2012
Article comment by: John A. Bond

@ Nutso Fasst:

Originally, you said,

"Mr. Gohr, I doubt our narcissistic chief executive is going to take the nation into a totalitarian dictatorship,"

Then I said,

"Apparently there are some people who do not equate corporatocracy [fascism] with a totalitarian dictatorship."

Then you said,

"Totalitarian dictatorship" is redundant, because a dictator is by definition a totalitarian ruler. A totalitarian government with multiple rulers is an oligarchy."

Comment:

Clearly, you contradicted yourself. Apparently you challenged your very own assertion. I think the only thing that really matters is whether or not the goal of the wealthy elite is to establish a totalitarian dictatorship no matter what form it takes to replace American constitutional democracy.

The political expression of the wealthy elite is the GOP, and the goal of the GOP is to pursue and promote political policies that will implement the establishment of corporate [fascist] rule that is dominated by the wealthy elite in conjunction with the Military Industrial Complex [MIC].

Personally, I have no doubt that such a dictatorship will eventually evolve into a fully military one with everyone subservient too, [including the wealthy elite] a military leader who arises as the dictator.

Eventually, the military will tire of working for the interests of the wealthy elite and decide to grasp power from them and secure it for itself by promoting someone with the ranks of the military to the position of dictator.

This would not be a historical precedent and it is the most likely scenario if and when the Reagan Revolution ever achieves its goal of establishment of a fascist state.


Posted: Friday, December 7, 2012
Article comment by: so those mystery booms... .

were the exploding heads of Dale G, Jim B. and MJ!

hah...

making more sense now...


Posted: Friday, December 7, 2012
Article comment by: Rosemarie Babcock

WOW people....Ease up....The world is so out of control today....Just by ALL of your posts, it's so sad. Ryan Jensen, REALLY, you can't think of ANY evidence that God exists??? How about the fact that a women can conceive, carry and give birth to a baby. That's a true miracle! I feel that the anger in the nation has just gotten out of control, most of the population is being led like lambs to the slaughter, but hey, that's just my opionion. There is NO generosity of spirit anymore, nobody cares about people like they used, there's no connection with neighbors like there used to be, everyone is always in a hurry, it seems like there is just a ME, ME ME attitude out there. It's not just about the Government, it's about the people as a nation. We are all responsible for the crap that goes on here and around us too. It's what we put out there, the words we write, what we say and do, how we treat our fellow man/woman/child. There is no spirituality, (I'm not talking about religion, there IS a difference), it's as if it's just vanished, without a trace, nowhere to be found. Personally I think that we need more Spirituality in the world, especially today, as for the Government, not much you can do about them, it's pretty much out of our control, just have to go with the flow on that one, and just hope for the best for our nation and world. Treating people kinder & gentler here at home is a good start though, cause you don't know what people have been thru till you have walked a mile in their shoes. I just read these comments and shake my head because all of them seem so negative, angry and detached from everything else going on around us. There's more to life than the Government, Republicans, Dems, & Obama. Why not get out there and experience it? That's all. Merry Christmas to you all and your families. May the coming year be a better one for us all. :)

Posted: Friday, December 7, 2012
Article comment by: The Goatherder

A recent poll indicates that nearly half of all Republican voters believe ACORN helped Obama steal the election, in spite of the fact that ACORN closed it's doors in 2010.
These people are delusional. In complete denial, crying their tears of impotent rage. Endeavoring to discuss anything with them in this regard is a fool's errand.


Posted: Friday, December 7, 2012
Article comment by: nutso fasst

"Totalitarian dictatorship" is redundant, because a dictator is by definition a totalitarian ruler. A totalitarian government with multiple rulers is an oligarchy.

The influence wielded by CEOs of wind turbine producer GE, energy giant NextEra, and insurance corporations over the distribution of federal funds into the coffers of their corporations falls under the definition of corporatism, "the control of a state or organization by large interest groups," not totalitarism, "a form of government in which the political authority exercises absolute and centralized control." However, as we move forward toward centralized government control and away from individual liberty, the possibility of totalitarianism increases.




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