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home : opinions : letters May 1, 2016


5/24/2012 1:01:00 PM
Letter: What’s next ... plural marriages?

Editor:

I don’t have a dog in this fight, but the “Same-sex marriage” debate raises a question in my mind.

If it is decided to be a human right and is made legal, shouldn’t plural marriage – any combination of men and women - also fall into the same category? Men die younger than women, tend to marry younger women, leaving a shortage of men among older women.

A female government minister in Australia once recommended older, unattached women try lesbianism to fulfill their need for companionship. First-married partners agreeing, plural marriage would be a “human right’ to fill that “need.”

Plural marriage has been around at least as long as monogamous marriage – the ancients taking as many wives as they could provide for. Women, of course, being the “weaker sex,” didn’t have much say about it, but slowly – using their feminine charms to claim single-ownership – changed the institution to monogamy.

In their effort to keep the focus only on gay/lesbian marriage, their supporters say that, to go further would bring chaos – people being allowed to marry anything, their favorite pet for example. That dog (pardon me) won’t hunt. Marriage implies consent, and only a human can give that consent. So, if the institution of marriage is no longer to be seen as a union between one man and one woman, how can we deny anyone the right to marry anyone? Monogamy or not, no one has ever said it is not possible to love more than one person.

In either case, plural or gay/lesbian, the insurance industry probably disagrees. I can imagine Bob, with a great job and wonderful benefits, taking pity on his unemployed best friend Joe, marrying him to share his largess and then divorcing as soon as Joe is back on his feet.

You do understand, this is a touchy subject at home.

Jim Barber

Camp Verde



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Reader Comments

Posted: Thursday, June 7, 2012
Article comment by: Oh Come On!

Is America free or not? If we really are free, then we should have free agency! I might disagree with many other people's life styles, But they have the right! We are either free or we are not! I say let freedom ring! Man and woman, man and man, woman and woman, cousin to cousin, man and many wives, woman, many husbands! Internet over sea's "mail order brides, grooms", People who want lots of children, people who do not... JUST AS LONG AS WE DO NOT PAY FOR IT! No government subsidy's! No more taxes! As log as other peoples free agency doesn't cost us or harm us. What any one or every one does in the privacy of the home they pay for, They should be free to do it! And that's anything and or every thing! Are we free or not? I say go for it!

Posted: Thursday, June 7, 2012
Article comment by: President Obama Will Stoop To Any Level to be Re-Elected

Statistics of 2011: 75% of all homosexuals do not stay together past 5 years, and have multiple partners..Only 1.8 percent of the adult population, in America is homosexual.
They make a lot of noise in politics, and public because they have an agenda! They want rights, and acceptance because they know even in nature what they are doing is wrong. If it was right, even by an Agnostic standpoint they would be able to pro-create! Then we have all the verses in the Old Testament and New Testament that talk about Homosexuality being an abomination to God.
1 Corinthians 6:7=Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men will inherit the kingdom of God."1 Corinthians 6:9 The words men who have sex with men translate two Greek words that refer to the passive and active participants in homosexual acts." 12=“I have the right to do anything,” you say—but not everything is beneficial. “I have the right to do anything”—but I will not be mastered by anything. 13 You say, “Food for the stomach and the stomach for food, and God will destroy them both.” The body, however, is not meant for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.
18=Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body.

As a Nation we should not cater to this corruption it will further deteriorate our society. Marriage has always been between a man and a woman and we need to leave it that way! If we as a Nation go against God morally he will as he is beginning to do, take away His blessings on our country. Sodom and Gomorra was destroyed for this very reason!
The Gov needs to stay out of this and not make it political..
Let people do what they will it's a free country, and each person has to answer to God for what they do in this life. We should not change our laws to suit a small loud sexually corrupt group of people! What will be next if we do?


Posted: Thursday, June 7, 2012
Article comment by: Helig Hammarmal

The solution for this problem is really quite simple: government needs to get out of the marriage business. Whoever I decide to shack with up is my/our business, not the publics. The days when we all shared in the joys and trials of each others lives and marriages in some sort of public way died with increasing urbanism, cultural and social fragmentation, and now, massive distrust of the entire political system. Really, government has nothing better to do than to offer their stamp of approval to our relationships?

If not this, then they should undertake some reform of domestic relations laws and offer only civil unions. Straight, gay, lesbian, pluralist, all should be able to get the same stupid little piece of paper and calling it "civil union" across the board bypasses the whole sticky-wicket of "marriage". If you want marriage, go see your preacher. If you feel the need to let government be a third-party in your relationships then by all means, you could still get a civil union certificate and hang it on your wall. But IF government continues the marriage business, then they need to treat all groups equally and not discriminate upon the basis of homophobia, jealousy over your neighbor's multiple wives (let's face it, those Mormons are good looking, wouldn't mind of couple of them for myself), or religious dogmas promoting their alleged monopoly on proper moral conduct.


Posted: Thursday, June 7, 2012
Article comment by: Are you kidding? No, really

I'm always so amazed that there are so many people still living in the 1950s and so open-minded. Make divorce illegal? Very good. Have lots of unhappy marriages affecting children. Saying that letting gay people marry will lead to polygamy and is just silly. Who are you to say who should love who? God made gay people too, by the way. It's all just fear of change. The more fear, the more clinging to rigidity and 1950s values.

Posted: Wednesday, June 6, 2012
Article comment by: bob grant

Plural marriage should be allowed between consenting adults.Its only christian power that is at issue.Chose who or how you love is individual right.If it bothers you dont do it!!

Posted: Wednesday, June 6, 2012
Article comment by: Same sex marriages will come to an end the day when....

straight people stop having gay babies. It's all the straight people's fault that there are gay people.

Posted: Sunday, May 27, 2012
Article comment by: Edward Broker

I will be against same-sex marriage when society is against divorce (Micah 2:14-16) and deadbeat dads who are "worse than an unbeliever" (1Tim. 5:8)—and when society is equally against all the other abominations listed in the Bible, including adultery (Ezekiel 18: 6-13)! I understand the psychoanalysis behind the anti-gay marriage debate. Pride. As in too proud to admit one's own shortcomings and sins for more insight—and a chuckle). So, "Let's just project our faults on that tiny population of gays." Why must some people perceive others as inferior just to make themselves feel better? Only about 2-3% of the population is gay. And the 2010 census has concluded that only about 0.518% of households are same-sex partnerships. I am included in that statistic. With about 50% of heterosexual marriages ending in divorce after seven years, one would think that the "Fall of America" would rest on the shoulders of those "one man/one woman" marriage households that destroy the marriage institution in a way same-sex couples never could, with "one man/one woman" DIVORCE! I will defer from expounding the destructive effects of divorce on children. And how ironic that Jesus called remarried divorcees adulterers, but no one gets on the pulpit or campaign podium to pontificate about that or any of the other six hundred plus sins in the Bible. I am so happy that Jesus surrounded Himself with the outcasts of society—I am included in that group—while calling the Pharisees, the religious establishment of His day who had the same pretensions of superior sanctity seen in so many today, "whitewashed tombs." He called them what they were, hypocrites! I am also happy to read so many positive gay-marriage comments here. I have loved my partner more than a few decades now. "What one does in the bedroom" should not define gays any more than it should define heterosexuals. With us, love won out.

Posted: Saturday, May 26, 2012
Article comment by: Yes, marriage is one of the last sacred rituals between Man & Woman

that is why I advocate making divorce illegal. And Bob and his friend Joe show how desperate people are to stay alive when they don't have health insurance.

Posted: Friday, May 25, 2012
Article comment by: Peter, Yavapai County

"Government needs to get out of the marriage business...", you're so right, John. Our elected representative "milk" this issue in lieu of doing the job they were hired to do - responsibly spending our tax dollars.



Posted: Friday, May 25, 2012
Article comment by: verde valley voter

Well now lets just mix this up a bit. I think women need many men to support them in a appropriate manner. Especially now. Men have failed to lead this country. Many men have failed to be present in raising their own children. and many women are head of household. It is know wonder we have the change in marriage that we have today.

Posted: Friday, May 25, 2012
Article comment by: John McMillian

Government needs to get out of the marriage business, or give it to everyone. It is as simple as that. "one-man-one-woman" concepts are borne of religion and "And Justice For All" is borne of Government. If Gov't wants to run marriage, it must give it to everyone....if not, put it back into the churches from were it came. There shouldn't even be any argument.

Posted: Friday, May 25, 2012
Article comment by: John A. Bond

OMG! Life as we know it is over. The American empire, just like the Roman Empire that preceded it, is on the verge of collapse. Surely, there can be no more profound evidence of the disintegration of America than allowing gay and lesbian marriage.

We are precariously perched on the precipice of complete moral collapse and this is all because America elected an Afro-American male to the presidency who promotes improper acceptance of gay and lesbian marriage.

Nothing is more emblematic of the deterioration of a society, of its cultural and moral decline than allowing human beings of the same sex to engage in the sacred and inviolate state of “holy” matrimony.

Never mind that divorce is at an all time high in heterosexual couples with fully 75% of those marriages ending in divorce. If religious men and women cannot use religion to maintain their self righteous position of moral superiority by denial of marriage to gays and lesbians our society cannot survive.

This egregious spiral into moral depravity is demonstrable by the POTUS using the bully “pulpit” [no pun intended] to endorse gay and lesbian marriage.

So, people like Mr. Barber living in the past, in an America wherein discrimination was always the rule rather than the exception are unable to comprehend or even conceive of marriage for same sex couples.

The debate will rage as to whether this represents the evolution of America into a more egalitarian constitutional democracy wherein equal legal rights are applied to all citizens, or whether it represents a devolution of America in a depraved and decadent society on the brink of extinction.

I find it ironic that those who support the war-mongering Military Industrial Complex [MIC], wherein murder and mayhem are employed as the primary expression of American imperialism become so immobilized by same sex marriage.

If anything is an overt manifestation of the depravity of a nation, it is the reliance upon military power to inflict violence upon the great masses of humans worldwide to achieve its goals of global American hegemony. Nothing is more malevolent to maintaining a moral society than the employment of military might as the primary manifestation of Americas implementation of economic polices that undermine peaceful settlement of disputations amongst nations.


Posted: Friday, May 25, 2012
Article comment by: Makes a good point

This is a deeply personal subject, but in making an informed opinion, one should consider all the ramifications.

The writer does make a valid point. If a woman truly loves and truly wants to marry a man with more than one wife, the same justification G/L/B/T use can be used. Who's the victim? Why deny them or any consenting parties the right to "marriage equality"?

You could also extend this who's the victim argument to a brother and sister who truly love each other and want to marry. Why should they be denied?

So are there no limits to "marriage equality"?

Personally, I favor civil unions that provide all the legal protections and rights of marriage to any couple that wants it. These are legal rights conferred by the State.

Marriage, on the other hand, I view as more of a religious institution, with rights and privileges conferred by the religious institution of the couple, rather than the State.

I am therefore content to let the concept of marriage be defined by the religion of the two parties. This, in Judeo-Christian theology, is of course one man and one woman, referred to as husband and wife.

You, of course, are free to choose your own religion, or no religion at all in this country. And thank God for that.

But please do not try to force your religious views on me or anyone else -- or try to change my religion's definition of marriage.


Posted: Thursday, May 24, 2012
Article comment by: Ryan Jensen

Jim, I’m always amused by your letters, but this one takes reason to the very edge.

The reason you think gays should not legally marry is…insurance fraud? The “Bob” and “Joe” scenario you described could just as easily occur between straight people!

I don’t mind you disapproving of gay marriage, but please be honest about your reasons for it…take a quick glance downward, Jim, the slip of your prejudice is peeking out from under your dress.


Posted: Thursday, May 24, 2012
Article comment by: Peter, Yavapai County

Jim, true freedom is a dangerous thing, indeed. The tempting alternative is to regulate what people can and can't do. If someone wants to marry their dog, that's their business. From the way dog and cat lovers already behave, it's clear that marriage is not necessary.


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